“It’s helpful to remember that it is not about you, but rather the moment shared between you and the person you are communicating with.”
Carrie Ann Inaba
What does finding your voice mean? It can mean living life according to your values, acting in a way that reflects your truest self, taking a stand for what you believe in, or the process of finding who you are at your core. With so many distractions around us at all times, it can be difficult to discover your voice through all of the noise. Even when you have a clear understanding of your convictions, it’s only human to falter or second guess yourself at times.
I found my voice at an early age. When I was only 10 years old, I had to find the courage to speak up to prevent my father from killing a mouse. The mouse had been eating my father’s possessions and he was very upset. I was just a little girl, but I loved all animals and have always believed they have the right to be here just as much as we do. So, despite the incredible fear I felt, I stood up for myself and told my father “No!”. Everyone was stunned, including my father, but I gathered all the courage in the world that a little girl could and released the mouse. That was the first time I found my voice. But for me, finding my voice was associated with survival. It has taken me a long time to separate the two. Speaking up for yourself doesn’t always have to be a confrontation. It can be done in a loving way. We need to shift the paradigm around “speaking up” and “sharing your truth”.
We all live in separate universes, and our own perceptions of the world shape how we view everything. So, communication is key. It is the bridge between all humans. We all have different life experiences, and those experiences will give meaning to what is happening in our lives. The meaning we each give to something is slightly different, so often misunderstandings happen. I believe that in order to connect with people and to create harmony in any situation, we need understanding. In order to truly understand each other, we must communicate.
We also have to think about understanding the different intensities of our voices, or the “volume” so to speak. Sometimes you can say things passionately and no one will listen. Sometimes you say things in a quiet manner and everyone stands at attention. Finding the courage to speak up is important, but so is fine tuning what you are putting into the universe. It’s helpful to remember that it is not about you, but rather the moment shared between you and the person you are communicating with.
So, my advice is this: When you think of “finding your voice”, instead of thinking that you have to stand up for yourself, and that it’s life or death, a more peaceful and effective way to communicate is to think of it as bridging the gap between yourself and the other person’s “self”. Think of it as trying to create understanding. You try to understand them, and help them to understand you.
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Today I am having a conversation with the Content Producer and Senior Writer of Carrie Ann Conversations, Ellyn Sinicropi. We met while working together at “Dancing with the Stars”, and then I asked her to come and work for me at CAC! She started as the Judges Production Assistant, and will be returning this year as an Associate Producer. People that are talented, intuitive, creative, sensitive, honest and have a good work ethic are not easy to find these days. But Ellyn checks all of the boxes, and on top of that, our sensibilities are in alignment. And that has been key to the way we work together.
So, I wanted to introduce all of you to Ellyn before we both go back to work on DWTS 31 on Disney+ this fall!
Without further adieu, ladies and gentlemen, let’s give a warm welcome to Ellyn Sinicropi (applause – I can’t help it, I’m from live TV)!
Carrie Ann: So Ellyn, first of all, let me say this: You have been working so hard and I’m extremely grateful for all of the passion and hard work you have put into Carrie Ann Conversations – not only the website, but the social media and the digital series we did in the Spring.
Ellyn: Thank you so much!! I love working for CAC and seeing it grow. It’s been so fun to be on the ground floor of something that I think has amazing potential. I love the creative process and working alongside you!
Carrie Ann: Tell us a little about yourself, where are you from, and what brought you to LA?
Ellyn: I grew up in Houston, Texas and graduated from the University of Texas at Austin. I was a double major in public relations and film/tv, but always knew that working in the entertainment industry was my ultimate goal. Growing up I loved acting and writing, and was a voracious reader. I was pretty determined to have a career in some kind of storytelling from a young age.
Carrie Ann: What is your cultural background?
Ellyn: My last name is Italian so I definitely have a bit of that in my blood (if my love of carbs and gelato is any indication). I’m also Norwegian, Polish, English, and Irish. If I had to guess I’d say that I am mostly Italian and Norwegian.
Carrie Ann: What is your age?
Ellyn: I’m 26!
Carrie Ann: What are your aspirations?
Ellyn: Right now I would love to continue growing in my career and use storytelling to connect in a meaningful way with others.
Carrie Ann: Hobbies?
Ellyn: I love reading fiction, listening to podcasts and music, spending time with friends, and am really into fashion and beauty.
Carrie Ann: When writing for Carrie Ann Conversations, what is your main goal? And how do you choose the topics of your articles?
Ellyn: I want to make sure that people feel understood and seen through my writing. I also hope that people take away something helpful from each article, or look at something in a new way. But honestly, having someone feel less alone because of something I wrote is more than enough for me!
When it comes to choosing article topics, I always try to keep the bigger picture in mind. What is going on in the world right now? What are we collectively experiencing? What trends, good or bad, have I been seeing on the internet? I kind of start from that point and then narrow it down. The goal of CAC is to help people so I approach ideas from that angle. And then sometimes I just feel like writing about skincare products because I have a Sephora addiction.
Carrie Ann: What are you hoping to give to our audience?
Ellyn: I hope to give them a greater sense of self confidence, and the knowledge that they are not alone in their struggles. We are all in it together!
Carrie Ann: What have you learned along the way?
Ellyn: I’ve learned so much! However, I think the greatest lesson I have learned is to be more honest and vulnerable in my writing. CAC is about embracing our flaws, and I hope that my writing is a reflection of that. There is no benefit to acting like you’ve got things figured out. Where’s the fun in that? I don’t trust people who claim to not have problems.
Carrie Ann: What was the most personal article you have written? Why was it important for you to share what you shared?
Ellyn: The most personal article I have written was on my experience with acne. Just about everyone has gone through a bout of acne, but it hits some of us harder than others and can be a source of low self-esteem. That’s also why I felt like it was important to share my experience with it. I never want people to feel like they’re alone! We need to normalize skin conditions and I wanted to do my part in that process. My hope is that the beauty industry eventually catches up and shows people with unretouched, real skin. I don’t want future generations of kids growing up thinking that their skin is supposed to look photoshopped.
Carrie Ann: Carrie Ann Conversations started as something I wanted to do to help people in need. As I was being challenged with my own health, I felt helpless. I went from being a very active and physical person, working intensely all day and then dancing or working out at night or doing other projects I loved, suddenly, I was in bed four days out of the week. And it was a hard adjustment. And I needed something to be creative and productive. It actually feeds my soul to create and be productive.
While in bed, I started to research for answers and to understand what was happening to my body. The Sjögren’s syndrome,and other autoimmune diseases were not as well known then, and I really had to dig for information. I found these very specific facebook groups that addressed a lot of what I was going through. One in particular helped me a lot, that was the Sjögren’s sisters group on Facebook. You have to ask permission to join because we share our real struggles with each other. I found answers the doctors couldn’t give me there, from people who actually knew what it was like. I could cry, complain, and also ask for support or advice in a way that allowed me and everyone else in the group the full freedom of expression. And that was healing.
And that is why I started Carrie Ann Conversations. In an effort to help people have a safe place to share their struggles. My goal has always been to build a community of ordinary- but also extraordinary people going through this journey of life, helping each other by way of sharing compassionately and honestly.
So, for me it was not easy to find the right people who could help me build this out and continue on the days I couldn’t. Which is a part of my life I accept and respect now. I have learned that the team is everything and you have been incredible that way.
What stands out to me is is that you have been able to combine a warmth and intelligence and added a dimension of a younger mindset, while keeping the torch going – all the while with an elegance that puts a smile in people’s hearts.
How do you approach your writing? What is your process for any young writer out there?
Ellyn: Thank you! It means a lot to hear that coming from you. When I write, I want the reader to feel like a friend is talking to them, and provide useful information at the same time. I’m figuring things out just like they are!
For young writers out there, I would say don’t be afraid to inject your own unique style and voice into your work. That’s what makes for an interesting read. Don’t try to write like anyone else, because your voice is what makes you special! This is the same advice I have to remind myself of.
Carrie Ann: When you joined CAC, I noticed you were incredibly self motivated and proactive. You continue to always be on top of things. How do you stay motivated in a world that seems to be a bit lost at the present moment?
Ellyn: I 100% go through periods of lack of motivation just like everyone else. Especially with everything going on in the world. But, I know deep down that giving up isn’t going to serve me or anyone else. Plus, I run on the anxious side so letting things slide will result in a worry spiral at 2am. I’ve found that I’m at my most energized and creative when I’m taking care of myself. If I’m not socializing, exercising, or resting enough, that is a recipe for lack of motivation. I am still working on creating a better balance for myself, but that’s why writing about wellness is so great. I am constantly writing about something that reminds me to get back on track.
Carrie Ann: We’ve been through some tough times these past few years…What are your biggest concerns about the future in general?
Ellyn: I have many. I try not to dwell on those things though, and instead focus on what I can control. I can only control my actions and what I put out into the world. It’s easy to get swept up in what’s happening right now and be in a constant state of worry or rage. I have vacillated between the two but always end up in the same place. I can only control my actions.
Carrie Ann: And what about your own personal future?
Ellyn: I think I have many of the same worries as any other 20-something. Am I doing enough? Am I on the right path? Will I ever be able to afford a house in LA?
Carrie Ann: Ellyn, in my humble opinion, you are doing your part and I know that whatever path you step on, you will bring a lot of light to it. And I’m sure you will be able to afford a house in LA! But maybe you should wait until the prices come down a bit, haha.
So, what excites you about the future? For me, it’s technology. It has grown to help make our lives simpler, which for people with disabilities is extra helpful. Apps like Instacart, Amazon, and Postmates have helped many of us survive these past few years, especially those of us who have unique immune systems and have to be extra careful.
Ellyn: I’m also excited to see where technology takes us. Especially in terms of how it can help us in clean and renewable energy. I’d love a world where we no longer need to put gas in our cars! I’m also excited to see how female leadership grows in our country. Hopefully we get a female president sooner rather than later.
Carrie Ann: Amen. Let’s talk about your self care:
What’s something you do for your mind?
Ellyn: Reading!
Carrie Ann: Your career?
Ellyn: I have read self / career development books and enjoy talking to other people about how they got to where they are. The last book I read is called “The Path Made Clear” by Oprah Winfrey. It’s a collection of quotes and passages from successful people on how they found their purpose.
Carrie Ann: Your body?
Ellyn: I like to exercise and have been working on making it more present in my life. I take different exercise classes through Classpass, and have recently got into spin! It is very difficult but I always feel so accomplished when I walk out.
Carrie Ann: Your skin?
Ellyn: I have a skincare routine that I follow and never miss a day! Here’s an article I wrote about crafting your own routine!
Carrie Ann: Your sleep?
Ellyn: I try to shut off at a decent time and have a similar routine every night. Easier said than done though!
Carrie Ann: Your spirit?
Ellyn: I like taking long walks while listening to music and find that it helps clear my mind. I usually do 3-4 miles while listening to Harry Styles’s new album on repeat.
Carrie Ann: Your heart?
Ellyn: Spending time with family and friends is really important to me!
Carrie Ann: Your hope?
Ellyn: I think that the combination of taking all of these self-care steps lifts my spirits and gives me hope.
Carrie Ann: It gives me hope to hear of other people’s hope, so thank you for sharing that. Just a few more questions…
What has surprised you in all the research you have done and how has working with CAC affected your own personal wellness?
Ellyn: I have learned that wellness is very personal and not one size fits all. It’s all about trial and error. I’ve also learned to be more open to different wellness modalities. If something works for you, it doesn’t really matter what it is or where it came from. This has definitely affected my own wellness and made me a lot more aware of how I need to take care of myself.
Carrie Ann: What do you wish for CAC in the future?
Ellyn: I hope that it continues to grow! I would love for it to expand because I believe in its mission, and that anything that helps people understand themselves and others better is worthwhile.
Carrie Ann: Final question – we have to at least do one about “Dancing with the Stars”! What has been your favorite dance on DWTS?
Ellyn: My all-time favorite was Iman & Daniella’s horror night contemporary to the “Us” theme! It was such an inventive and unique routine. I think everyone in the room was wowed. I went home after the show and watched it again because it was that good! I’m so happy Daniella was nominated for an Emmy for her choreography.
Carrie Ann: I agree, that was one of my favorites as well. And now the final question – must ask, who is your favorite judge? Lol
Ellyn: You of course!!
Carrie Ann: Thank you so much Ellyn, and thank you for all of your contributions to CAC. I look forward to all that is to come.
Stay tuned for more conversations, and check out Carrie Ann’s previous interviews here!
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Jim Curtis is an author, speaker, health coach, and Head of Business at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. He is a graduate of the Whittemore School of Business at the University of New Hampshire. He has been a wellness pioneer for the last 20 years, helping to develop WebMD, Everyday Health, and Remedy as well as publishing The Stimulati Experience : Nine Skills for Getting Past Pain, Setbacks, and Trauma to Ignite Health and Happiness(Random House).
This article is an excerpt from Carrie Ann’s February 17th, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Jim Curtis. It has been edited for length and clarity.
Wellness burnout. It’s a thing. When you’re flooded with opinions and options, looking for answers can actually leave you with more questions. The sheer amount of “cures” and information out there can be exhausting to sort through, especially when doctors can’t provide a clear diagnosis. Someone who probably knows this feeling better than most is our latest guest, author and health coach Jim Curtis. His story is fascinating and a testament to his resilience in fighting his invisible illness. Not to mention the persistence needed to advocate for yourself and your health. He’s tried it all, and turned that knowledge into a career in coaching and growing businesses in the health sector. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did!
Carrie Ann: My guest today is a really cool guy, and he’s been through a lot. I found him on social media when I came across his TED talk, and at that time I was going through a very, very difficult period. For all my autoimmune sisters and brothers out there, I was going through a really bad flare up. It was around the time that I had taken leave from “The Talk”. And his TED talk really inspired me. It’s called “The Cosmic Algorithm: Deciphering the Signs”. When I watched it, I was deeply moved, and I felt connected to him through his story.
He is a speaker, author, and is the Head Coach and Head of Business at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. His philosophy is really fascinating and it focuses on all facets of life – mental, emotional, spiritual, relationships, and career. I thought you all would love this conversation.
Thank you so much for being here today Jim, I’m very grateful to you for taking the time.
Jim Curtis: I’m so happy to be here, I’ve been watching your conversations. I saw the last one with Fran Drescher and I couldn’t wait to get on this conversation!
Carrie Ann: Thank you! Yeah, we talked about detoxing the home. So I have a nontoxic candle in the background. And I know you know all about detoxing because of your background. But I want to start with how I was introduced to you – I found you on Instagram, and came across your TED talk. I have lupus, fibromyalgia, and Sjogren’s syndrome, and I was in a really terrible flare up. I listened to your TED talk, and you talked about how you had gone through something similar. Would you mind kind starting there and telling people about your story, and how you came into this world of healing?
Jim Curtis: I love connecting with people that are going through chronic illness because I can understand it. There was a time when I was having all these symptoms, including paralysis in my legs, and I could not figure out what it was. I had a lesion on my spinal cord and it was inflamed, but we couldn’t figure out what it was and the treatments weren’t working. It was going on at a point in time where there were no communities to connect with. I was 20 years old – there wasn’t and Instagram or even YouTube where you could find a TED talk. So you felt alone, you felt really alone. You were in what I call survival mode, because you don’t know what’s happening to you. The fear of trying to figure it out just puts you in this survival mode where you shut down some of your emotions, otherwise you’d become so overwhelmed with it. But you still get hit with bouts of fear and a little bit of panic. That went on for me for 15 years, and then finally I was able to get out of it a little bit. I still walk with a little bit of a limp today, I still have some issues, but I’m no longer living in illness.
Carrie Ann: First of all, I’m glad to hear that you’re no longer living in “dis-ease” or illness. But it sounds like it was such an uphill battle for you, and probably took you having to become a seeker of knowledge, wellness, and answers. What was that path like for you?
Jim Curtis: I think you’re probably familiar with this too, you can always keep seeking right?
Carrie Ann: Yes! I’m a seeker.
Jim Curtis: I’m a seeker too. But at the time, I wasn’t a seeker and I just had a type A father and sister, who kept asking “did you go here? Did you go there? You have to go here”. I think I went to hospitals all around the country. Then I started to go to Europe, because I had a good family unit who wouldn’t let me not find out what it was. I think that once you start talking about your illness, especially today, everybody has a guy. Like, “I got a guy for you, you’ve got to see my guy, he cured this”. Everything from energy healing to Western medicine. Everybody always has a recommendation. You can choose to see those people or not. I was luckily in a position where I could say, okay, I’m just gonna say yes to everybody’s guy. I ended up seeing over 200 people, everybody from an Ecuadorian shaman to grandmasters of kung fu, to watsu (a combination of hydrotherapy in warm water and Shiatsu massage) and qigong healers (an ancient Chinese healing method that includes meditation, controlled breathing and movement exercises). I went all over the country and the world, from the Mayo Clinic to the East Village. I just kept searching. I think I found a lot of answers that kind of led me to where I am today.
Carrie Ann: You said you saw over 200 healers and professionals, and I relate to that so much. Right now I’m in the process of Lyme disease treatment. I just had oxygen IV ozone therapy, and it didn’t go so well. I’m kind of in a state of a conundrum right now. Sometimes, there’s so many healers and it can be confusing. From your point of view – because I’m going through it myself right now – what can I do to avoid that kind of confusion? I feel like I should just trust my intuition, but sometimes I get scared to do that.
Jim Curtis: I call it wellness FOMO (fear of missing out). Like, could there be a cure that I’m not willing to try? I’m gonna try it because I don’t want to miss out on that cure! I was doing it because I could, and because I was researching. I wanted to write a book. But at one point, I just said, no, I’m not seeing any more people. You could literally go down this rabbit hole forever, and sometimes you have to just stick with one thing. Even though it’s so enticing when someone says, “I have this new therapy, have you heard about it?”. And you want to just quickly go try it and spend more money and time investigating it. Sometimes you just have to say no, and reduce the amount of information coming into your head so you can focus on a few things that are working for you. That’s what I did.
Carrie Ann: I like that. Keep it small, just reduce, because it can be overwhelming. There are so many options right now. That’s one thing about social media, you have access to everything. I heard you say something about how you’ve got to do research when you’re working with people. Have you ever had a weird experience with a healer?
Jim Curtis: Yes. I believe that wellness is incredibly seductive. In the sense that you can be seduced into bliss. If someone offers you bliss, you want it. When you’re feeling sick, and someone’s like, “I have a solution”, you say, “yes, please can I have a solution”. But not everyone in wellness has good intentions. There’s a real practical side of this, and I learned this a number of times. So of the hundreds of people that I’ve seen, some were true masters and had energy, and some were people that positioned themselves that way to make money. The story that I tell sometimes is during the time period that I was saying yes to everyone, someone said there was a shaman in town who was working magic. It was really hard to get him, so you had to do some weird things. I said alright, fine, I’ll go bring $200 in cash and a pack of Marlboro cigarettes. I was like, alright, I’ve done weirder stuff than that.
I find myself in the East Village of New York City in the most rundown building ever, walking with my broken body up six flights of stairs to the top apartment. I’m pulling on the railing, and it literally comes off my hand and I stumble down a couple steps. I finally make it all the way up. The shaman has a translator there who tells me to take off all of my clothes and lay down on this map, and it was pretty dirty in there. I was like, “take off all my clothes, did I understand that right?”. And she says yes. So I did it. I’m laying face down naked while this guy is blowing Marlboro cigarettes across my body and beating me with a burning sage tray. So I just started laughing uncontrollably about the situation I had just gotten myself into. I had to find the humor in it. Because it was so bizarre that I was going through such lengths just to find that person that could heal me, that I started laughing. And of course, they thought that was the cure, that was me dispelling the negative energy. And perhaps I was, even if it wasn’t the intention. That definitely gave me some levity. I left there wrapped in newspaper under my clothes, so I didn’t let out the good energy as he instructed. But yeah, I would never do it again.
Carrie Ann: You left there wrapped in newspaper?
Jim Curtis: Yeah, he had me wrap myself in newspaper and then put my clothes back on. I wasn’t to remove the newspaper or shower for two days. So I went to work like that, crinkling every time I walked, and it didn’t work. Needless to say I wasn’t cured, but it was definitely enlightening in that you have to be careful. You have to be prudent.
Carrie Ann: That might be the best story I’ve heard. And I have experienced some very odd things. So I think I you win. I do love the levity of it all. I mean, I think that laughter is good medicine. Sometimes you do need those, as you said in your TED Talk, perfect place, perfect time moments. It’s sort of like that was a perfect place, perfect time for you to remember, okay, wait, maybe I don’t need to go see every single healer. And maybe the newspaper thing isn’t quite what I’m looking for. Maybe I need to trust myself a little bit more.
Something that I liked about your book, “The Stimulati Experience: Nine Skills for Getting Past Pain, Setbacks, and Trauma to Ignite Health and Happiness”, was how it’s written in your voice, which is a masculine voice. This is a voice we don’t often hear in the world of autoimmune disease. There’s not a lot of people out there who speak openly about this. You talked about hating yourself, and that you got to the place where you were in gratitude for your chronic illness. Now, that’s quite a journey. First of all, thank you for saying you hated yourself, because I think you gave me permission to honor the feelings within myself and everybody else who read your book. That’s a big part of this process. It’s okay to feel those feelings, but I love that you give us tools to get to the other side. What was that process like for you?
Jim Curtis: First you have to recognize that oh, my god, I really dislike myself, I hate myself, I’m not being good to myself, right? Because a lot of us do. The way we look at ourselves in the mirror can really cultivate low self-esteem. It’s a question of how do you get beyond that? One is awareness, you have to recognize that that’s what I’m doing to myself. That’s how I feel about myself. Now, how can I feel better about it? A lot of it is having some grace with yourself, finding the things that you actually like about yourself, and interrupting the negative talk. Literally asking yourself, “would I say this to my best friend?”. Also, it’s about doing the things that you say that you’ll do to build self-esteem. Oftentimes, when we begin to really dislike ourselves or feel not good enough, or just completely inadequate, we don’t do the things we say we’ll do. So just taking those small steps will increase your self-esteem amazingly.
In fact, in the “Six Pillars of Self-Esteem” by Nathaniel Branden, he talks about this. He gets into how you raise your self-esteem, and oftentimes it’s by living in integrity and doing the things that you say you’ll do. And then having a little bit of grace with yourself in terms of what you think that you’re faltering on. Then if you want to get to the metaphysical, you can create a fire burning ceremony, you could change your energy, you can do all the fun stuff, but there are really practical things to it.
Carrie Ann: Those are the things that I like to keep in my back pocket, like honoring your word. You could also read The Four Agreementsby Don Miguel Ruiz, I think he talks about having integrity with your word. What I’m learning more and more in this world of wellness and health, is that we’re all saying the same thing, just in a slightly different way. This is what I find so fascinating about what you do, because you are Head Coach and Head of Business at the Institute of Integrative Nutrition. You guys create health coaches. I think this is what the world needs, because people are understanding that health takes effort, attention, and awareness. I believe it’s a right, a god given natural born right to have wellness. But I think that we weren’t taught how much work it takes, and people are now starting to see that.
I want to go back real quickly, because I’m fascinated by this one aspect of your journey. As a man who went through what you did, was it harder for you to be more open about it, because men are expected to be strong? I know that’s a very traditional thought and outdated. Have you experienced that?
Jim Curtis: Yeah, I have. I think it’s opening up a little bit more, there’s almost a renaissance of men being able to be vulnerable and get out of this kind of protector / provider paradigm. But when I was sick, I would actually tell people that I walked with a limp because I was in a motorcycle accident. It was more macho, and I didn’t have to be vulnerable. No one would ask me questions about my illness. I didn’t have to talk about it. It was this way of like being a macho man, instead of saying, well, you know, this is what I’m really dealing with. This is how it’s affecting me emotionally. Luckily, I feel like those things are changing a little bit. You have a lot of people on Instagram that are opening up and becoming more vulnerable men. But yeah, as a man that’s expected to be the protector and provider, it was hard.
Carrie Ann: Well thank you for being a path opener for people, and opening doors for people to talk. You were way ahead of your time.
What do you guys think about Jim’s story? Leave us a comment below if something in particular resonated with you! There are so many nuggets of wisdom to take from this interview. Wellness burnout might be unavoidable in your own path to health, but people like Jim have been creating ways to avoid the pitfalls and unnecessary trips to shamans.
For more information on health coaches and classes at IIN, follow the links below!
Jim Curtis is an author, speaker, health coach, and Head of Business at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. He is a graduate of the Whittemore School of Business at the University of New Hampshire. He has been a wellness pioneer for the last 20 years, helping to develop WebMD, Everyday Health, and Remedy as well as publishing “The Stimulati Experience : Nine Skills for Getting Past Pain, Setbacks, and Trauma to Ignite Health and Happiness” (Random House).
This article is an excerpt from Carrie Ann’s February 17th, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Jim Curtis. It has been edited for length and clarity.
The path to becoming a healthier version of you can be confusing, and at times, scary. We are constantly inundated with the latest cure-all trends, fad diets, and practices that all claim to be the answer. The truth is, what works for some people may not work for you, and the popularity of the wellness space has inherently attracted people who are solely interested in your money. Without guidance, it can feel like navigating a minefield. Enter experienced professionals who have tried it all so you don’t have to, or health coaches. These are the people that schools like the Institute for Integrative Nutrition train, and the demand for them has only been growing. So, what exactly is a health coach? What is their role in your wellness journey? Jim Curtis, the Head Coach at IIN, was kind enough to give us an overview of his profession and why health coaching involves a lot more than just diet.
Carrie Ann: I think people are starting to discover how vulnerable we are as people after two years of living with this pandemic. I’m so excited to share what you do, because I think people are going to be much more in need of health coaches. Could you explain a little bit about the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and if you think there’s going to be a boom in the need for health coaching?
Jim Curtis: Oh, there already is. Health coaching is one of the fastest growing professions. Right now, the American Medical Association has health coaching under review for CPT codes, which is how you would get reimbursed by insurance. It should be reimbursed as a health insurance benefit within a year. When that happened with chiropractors, acupuncturists, and masseuses, those professions boomed as well. And that’s kind of what’s happening with coaching right now. It’s become very mainstream, and there’s thousands of new coaches because there’s millions of people that need it. And we have a tidal wave of wellness opportunities.
Coaches really serve as the guide that helps you with the plan and then the next steps. What do I buy in the grocery store? There’s 13 different gluten free options. Which one should I buy? Where do I go? Should I do red light therapy or cryo therapy? Should I do vegan or paleo or keto or vegetarian? A health coach is really there to guide you. We as a school have been training the best health coaches for the last 30 years. So the training is not just about food. There’s a lot of schools that have a functional nutrition training, but we train you about the mental, emotional, career, and relationship aspects of your mindset. And we pioneered that.
Carrie Ann: I’ve heard you speak about food as not just what you put in your mouth, but as all the different sorts of nutrition for living a life of wellness. It’s about relationships and community among other things, right?
Jim Curtis: Yeah, everything feeds us. Your relationships feed you, your career feeds you, everything feeds you. It starts with the primary foods, and then you can start to look at what foods are actually on your plate that you’re eating. We say food changes everything. If you’re in a relationship, and it’s feeding you in a healthy way, then that changes everything about you. Then when you get to food, it really does change everything. You know how you feel when you drink a cup of coffee versus a glass of wine. The food that you eat literally turns into your blood and your cells and it creates you. So there are two components – there’s the mental or emotional, and there is the physical – and we focus on both.
Carrie Ann: I think that’s really important, and I think this is what people are looking for right now. They’re looking for real answers, and the real answers are multi-dimensional. It’s not just one lane. It’s not just food, it’s your relationships. In your book, The Stimulati Experience, you talk about your own trauma and how you got out of it. For somebody who’s [reading] this right now that might be in a place of trauma or fear, what are some tips that you would share with them?
Jim Curtis: I would say recognize the story that you’re telling yourself. Meaning, oftentimes, we get caught in trauma loops of the story that we’re telling ourselves, and we think that we think that we’re caught in the movie, instead of watching the movie. And that we can’t change anything. The first thing is to change the way you’re thinking in terms of your awareness of it. When you feel yourself spiraling, try to pull yourself out of it.
You can do a number of things, like going for a walk, talking to a friend, or just moving. I used to take a shower, and I wouldn’t realize that the water had been beating on my back for 15 minutes because I had been just obsessing over something. Now I can kind of click myself out of that by moving, turning the water cold, or getting out of the shower. So let’s first identify and break the pattern. And the second thing is there are so many resources you can get form group or community. For example, The Institute for Integrative Nutrition is a community of people that study together, work together, and learn together. And you can do it all online, but you still have your groups, you have your phone calls, and other things. Get into a community because it takes a village, it really does. And when you’re in a great community, your relationships are everything. Those are two ways that I really love.
Carrie Ann: Yeah, relationships and community have been hard in the last couple of years. I feel like those opportunities are actually starting to open up again, and we’re being able to connect with people. Even if we can’t connect with people in person, as you said, you have a you have an online course coming up.
Jim Curtis: Yeah, we have a course opening up now. If anybody’s interested in that they should call or go to integrativenutrition.com. That’s the best way you can speak to a graduate, who is also an admissions coach. It’s a really amazing experience even if you don’t want to be a health coach, it’s so transformative for yourself. Most people do it because they want to start coaching themselves, their family, or their friends. And then they realize, wow, I could really be of service with this, and they become health coaches. But oftentimes, it starts with just wanting to change their lives.
Carrie Ann: And there’s also a course in April, right?
Jim Curtis: There’s another course that starts April 25, if you don’t want to do March. We have nine starts a year, and those are the next two.
Carrie Ann: What I think is so wonderful about your school and what it’s doing, is that even if you don’t want to become a health coach, you learn how to do something that makes you a better person. So that you can show up better in this world, and in your own life feel better about yourself. And then, as we’ve talked about, like it’s a ripple effect, right? Once you’re feeling good, your vibes spread, and then you feel good because you helped other people feel good. I truly believe that we’re all energy, and that we’re all ultimately saying the same thing – that we are all connected. And when we do things that help ourselves or help other people, we’re helping everything. I love this contribution that you guys are putting into the world. Thank you so much Jim.
You guys, he has so much information, you have no idea. I just want to read a little passage from his book, “The Stimulati Experience: Nine Skills for Getting Past Pain, Setbacks, and Trauma to Ignite Health and Happiness” . On page 113, he says “I realized that everybody has a story and people are in different parts of their story. No matter where they were. Their story became a great catalyst for me to get to the place of thinking if they can do it, so can I”. He goes on to say, “being with other people and being infused with the inspiration of personal stories, I felt more hopeful and ready to overcome the obstacles in my life”.
This is something that is so inspiring, and it is the reason why I’m doing Carrie Ann Conversations as well.
What is your opinion on health coaching? Would you be willing to try it? Let us know in the comments below! There are so many ways out there to get the help that you need, and the first step is always to ask for it. One of the greatest qualities of the internet is the community and support you can find. As Jim said, it takes a village. There’s no reason to suffer alone or in silence. We hope this conversation gave you something new to consider in your own journey to wellness!
For more information and resources from Jim Curtis, follow the links below:
Lisa A. Romano is a Certified Life Coach who specializes in codependency and narcissistic abuse. Through her personal struggles, she has found a way out of the confusion a codependent mind can be. She is a best-selling author, YouTuber, and was voted the number one most influential person of 2020 by Digital Journal.
This article is an excerpt from my Jan.27th, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Lisa A. Romano. It has been edited for length and clarity. To watch the full video, click here.
The beginning of quarantine seemed to put a magnifying glass on everything that was working – or not working – in our lives. While some welcomed the uninterrupted time with our families, many felt the immense strain the pandemic put on their relationships. This was especially true, and in some cases still is, for people in the midst of unhealthy, abusive, or toxic relationships. During Carrie Ann’s conversation with life coach Lisa A. Romano, they talked about how to handle these types of situations, the childhood traumas that may have led to them, and her own experience as a codependent in a relationship. The talk was so informative and it’s clear that anyone can benefit from the self-reflection and self-love she preaches.
Carrie Ann: For those people who aren’t familiar but are so curious about this topic, could you tell them what a breakthrough life coach is? And what type of people seek out your assistance?
Lisa A. Romano: Well, I’m a life coach. And actually, it was one of my clients who came up with the term breakthrough life coach, because she said, “Lisa, I didn’t know that my childhood programming, my subconscious mind was affecting the way that I think. And every time I speak to you, I have a breakthrough, and another breakthrough, and it’s a breakthrough. And it’s like an elevation in my consciousness, and I feel lighter”. That’s how I adopted Breakthrough Life Coach.
As far as the types of people that seek me out, generally, these are people who are sick and tired of being sick and tired. They’ve tried traditional therapy, lots of them. They’ve been in therapy 10, 15, 20 years, and they just can’t make the connection between the subconscious and the conscious. They resonate with my work. There are people who come from traumatic backgrounds, oftentimes narcissistic parents, or they’re in a narcissistic relationship.
Unfortunately in traditional therapy, the therapist doesn’t always understand narcissistic abuse. Codependency is not in the DSM. So even though you could be running your life like a codependent and you could be attracting narcissist after narcissist, it’s not in the DSM. So when someone like me comes on and does a bunch of YouTube videos, Instagram and Facebook lives, and writes books, all of a sudden the information begins to resonate. It’s all encompassing. My work encompasses the way you were brought up in childhood, how this affected you, and why you feel the way you feel. This is why you think the way you think. And this is why you attract what you attract. Now let’s see if we can break through.
Carrie Ann: You know, as I’ve listened to you over the years, one of the things that I love the most about you is how you helped me to have language for what I was going through. I didn’t understand what a narcissist was, what a codependent was, and I didn’t know that my conscience was at play. Learning all of these words helped me shape them into smaller, more digestible compartments. You give so much information, and I love that you just keep giving it in slightly different angles. I think the way you’re so consistent in your messaging and what you’re trying to help people with is probably the reason why you were voted most influential person of 2020 by Digital Journal. And that was the year the pandemic started as well. What did you notice when the pandemic started as far as what people were reaching out for help with?
Lisa A. Romano: It just broke my heart. Because what happened was people were stuck home with alcoholics. They couldn’t escape. So they were dealing with various levels of narcissism, various levels of verbal abuse, psychological abuse, and the children were being more abused because no one could escape. The mental health issue that this has created is astronomical. I don’t think we understand the scope of what’s happened during this pandemic with psychological abuse, physical abuse, domestic violence and child abuse.
So lots of people were reaching out to me, that’s why I did a bunch of YouTube live streams during that time, because it was just, I feel it, like okay, let’s get some life skills here. Like don’t poke the bear if you’re stuck in quarantine with a narcissist. Don’t poke the bear. Right, like tread lightly because you can’t escape. They’re like caged lions, and they regulate through dominating, dominating the children and the people in the home. You don’t want to, not now, not when you’re in a pandemic. So those are the types of emails that I got from people. I’m stuck, now, what do I do?
Carrie Ann: So, the advice for people who are stuck and can’t create the distance that would be more healthy for them, don’t poke the bear. Are there any other bits of advice that you would give them besides don’t poke the bear?
Lisa A. Romano: I would say don’t poke the bear, and you have to understand your dynamic and be very logical during this situation. If you’re highly emotional, that’s not going to work. So meditate, calm yourself, regulate yourself, ground yourself to everything you can to take care of yourself. Don’t tell the narcissist that you’re taking care of yourself, because that’s a threat. This happens between your head and your heart, and with yourself. You don’t share this with anybody. Be very careful about what information you share with a narcissist if you’re quarantined with a narcissist. Get a support system but don’t tell them, because everything’s a threat. I think you have to tread very lightly when you’re stuck in a relationship. Also, I think it’s very important not to lie because a narcissist is, believe it or not, very tuned to you. They sense when you’re lying. So it’s probably better not to lie than it is to lie. Because if they sense that you’re lying, that will make them feel out of control. I think you have to be very, very careful in these situations.
Carrie Ann: Oh, that’s really fantastic advice for people. I can imagine that if you’re trapped at home with a narcissist, or someone who has narcissistic tendencies on the spectrum of narcissism, that it’s very scary. So this is for all of those who are in that situation. Please go to lisaaromano.com for more information because she’s got a wealth of it. It’s a difficult time and it can help you understand your situation and deal with it.
You said you identify as a former codependent, and you described it as a loss of selfhood. Could you explain that more?
Lisa A. Romano: You know, I love this work. Because if you do this work the right way, you will dive into your spiritual self, your psychological self, your vibrational self, your chemical self, you’ll touch on everything. So for children, in order for me to know that I have a self psychologically, oh, who is Lisa, I needed my parents to mirror back this sense that Lisa had a self. But it gets a little fuzzy because a child identifies self with how they feel. So what happens if I get taught that what I feel is irrelevant? What happens if my parents are self-absorbed and not attuned to me? The feelings that I have never get validated. Therefore I can’t attach to the self. My feelings that I’m experiencing on the inside are connected to myself. I know that I have a self through the way that I feel. But if I’m violated, if I’m told that your feelings are ridiculous – you’re a drama queen just looking for attention – then I’m thinking now I need to detach from my feelings. Because mommy and daddy say they’re bad. I have no self. Who are you outside of how you feel, and how you experience the world? If the information you receive from the outside is “it’s inappropriate. Don’t trust what you think. You’re wrong, you shouldn’t feel that way. You have no right to feel that way”, you disowned the self. So you’re a shell of a person.
When you go out in the world, this abandonment wound is still there. It’s a longing, it’s an aching to feel warm, connected, and cared for. It doesn’t go away. Because it’s linked to survival. It’s part of my default mechanism. I must hit that milestone. Therefore I’m codependent. But because of everything that’s happened to me, I believe that my worth is conditional. That’s my programming. So the gaping wound is there. This aching is there. Then there’s programming. If I take care of people, maybe they won’t hurt me. Maybe they won’t leave me. And that becomes a program and a way of life. And I don’t even know I’m doing it.
Carrie Ann: My heart breaks when we talk about this. So many of us have gone through this. You know, my mom was just here for the holidays. We were so grateful to see her after so much time and passed. And we worked on healing ourselves. I said there was a pattern of this in our family, and she was saying all she really wants is warmth. And you just mentioned that. So I asked, “for you Mom, what exactly is warmth?”. Even as she described it, I felt it. It’s the feeling of being safe, and loved, and worthy. Which is what you’re talking about, the selfhood. And that your worth comes from being.
Lisa A. Romano: You know, most parents screw up. It’s not their fault. It’s tough. You’re paying a mortgage, you have marital problems, you have your own trauma, and you’re just trying to get through the day. And I think a lot of people think that children aren’t wise, yet they’re wiser than we are. They know how you feel. They know what they need. They know how they feel, and that needs to be honored, and parents need to attune themselves to the children. What happens far too often is the children are attuning themselves to the parents.
That’s where the vibrational reality comes in. You are a vibrational being, you are an energetic being. So if Mommy is stressed, little baby Mary’s stressed. She has to be stressed in order to feel one with her mother. And that’s just biological. Children have to attune themselves. If there’s trauma or unpredictability in a home, the child can’t relax in that. The child has to be on guard, he has to be hyper vigilant. They have to attune themselves to the parents, but it should be the other way. Parents should be calm. And if a child is in duress, the parents should soothe the child. If the parent doesn’t soothe the child, the child never learns how to self-regulate.
Carrie Ann: How do we get past the wanting to judge the quote unquote failure on their part? Maybe it isn’t failure, it’s just everyone doing their best. And thanks to you, our generation and generations after us will have so much more language around this and that is the beauty. How do we not judge though?
Lisa A. Romano: One of the things that I teach in my 12 week breakthrough coaching program is that the first four weeks are all about you. I need to know what happened to you; you need to know what happened to you. There’s going to be a part of you that wants to say “and it’s their fault”. And I say, “let’s just figure out the piece of the piece of the puzzle that is you. Let’s just figure out the piece. Let’s not judge, but let’s just honor whatever happened to you”. Right? I do think, however, we need to pin the tail on the donkey psychologically. In other words, I was a victim of my mother’s immaturity, she was 19 when she had me. Her personality wounded me; I was a victim. I was an innocent little child.
However, I know that by the time people finish my class, they know that that’s not the goal. In other words, they know that forgiveness, letting go, and surrendering to what is, so that you can move into a state of wisdom, is the goal. My higher self doesn’t judge my mother. God, whatever your God is, doesn’t judge. Just accepts and surrenders. This is a holographic universe. What happens in one generation happens in the next generation, until someone in that family line awakens and breaks through. That’s just the way it is.
Did Lisa unlock any insights about your own past? Let us know if something resonated with you in the comments. We’d love to hear from you! She has so much knowledge, and you can get a glimpse of what her coaching is like on Insight Timer and YouTube. You don’t have to go far to find answers these days!
For more resources and information on Lisa, click the links below:
Her books – “I suggest you read my books in the following order,: The Road Back To Me, My Road Beyond the Codependent Divorce, Codependent Now What? It’s Not You-It’s Your Programming, Quantum Tools To Help You Heal Your Life Now, and Loving The Self Affirmations 1 & 2.” – Lisa A. Romano
Lisa A. Romano is a Certified Life Coach who specializes in codependency and narcissistic abuse. Through her personal struggles, she has found a way out of the confusion a codependent mind can be. She is a best-selling author, YouTuber, and was voted the number one most influential person of 2020 by Digital Journal.This article is an excerpt from Carrie Ann’s Jan.27th, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Lisa A. Romano. The interview has been edited for length and clarity. The word narcissism gets flung out quite frequently these days, along with other psychological buzzwords like gaslighting and trauma. It’s wonderful that we now have the language to identify these traits and situations, and the ability to share that information through social media. However, it’s important to understand what true narcissism and narcissistic abuse looks like. What role do they play in relationships? How does codependency create the environment for a narcissist to thrive? Carrie Ann caught up with life coach Lisa A. Romano, who specializes in helping people heal from narcissistic abuse and codependency. She has personal experience with both, and gave insight into why these types of relationships form. We hope you learn something new from this conversation, and can take something positive away for your own healing journey – whatever that may be.Carrie Ann: Let’s talk about relationships. In my past I have been in some very unhealthy relationships and attracted narcissists. It’s also brought out my own narcissistic tendencies. But, I think I relate more with being a codependent empath and having an anxious attachment style. Why does this happen? How does this narcissist codependent attraction happen? Why is it so prevalent in our society?
Lisa A. Romano: Empaths and codependents are different. An empath is like a sponge. An empath will pick up on the wounds of a narcissist, and immediately want to fix and heal them. Empaths are highly forgiving – they know that people are flawed – so they give people a pass. A narcissist says “Carrie Ann, I heard you. I’m so sorry. I’m going to work on that”. That fills you with joy. It makes the empath in you feel like a true healer, like you really can help this person. An empath can understand and even empathize with why the narcissist is abusive. Such as, “well, he abuses me because his father was an alcoholic”. They have this level of empathy for someone who’s narcissistic, and that’s exactly what a narcissist needs. A narcissist needs someone with high compassion. A narcissist requires it. A narcissist needs someone who says “that’s okay babe, I understand you made some mistake. As long as you’re working on yourself, that’s great, we can move towards this”.
A codependent is someone who needs to be needed. They are someone who does not have a sense of self, so they get one by catering to someone who is self-focused. A narcissist does not know how to navigate the world without direction. A narcissist oftentimes appears to be someone who has a lot of a lot of wounds and a codependent says, “I can fix that”. And they get a sense of self from fixing the narcissist. So, they’re not the same thing. However, an empath can have codependent traits and a codependent can be highly empathic.
Carrie Ann: That’s the part that trips everybody up, I think. That nothing’s quite black and white, right?
Lisa A. Romano: No.
Carrie Ann: You mentioned that empaths can sense the trauma in a narcissist. My theory is that empaths and narcissists come from the same sort of trauma, a trauma so immense that they just couldn’t deal with it and stay balanced. For me as the empath, I became hyper sensitive and developed my “spidey” skills. I sort of went outward in order to survive. And in my experience, the narcissist has the same kind of trauma. Maybe they’re scared as a child, so they go inward for survival. They only think about the self. There is nobody that exists that is as important as the self, because it’s their survival mode. Am I way off on this or is there some truth here?
Lisa A. Romano: There’s new research suggesting that narcissism is on the rise, and the researchers have an inkling that social media has something to do with that. This idea that this generation has a platform to celebrate themselves and to gain a source of narcissistic supply, right? That’s one theory. But it is more commonly known that narcissists do suffer from terrible trauma. They go so far inside themselves that they develop a false narrative, and a false self. So they really do think that they’re better than you. They really do believe that.
What they need you to do, if you’re going to be in a relationship with them, is to reflect that back. “Oh, babe you’re awesome. Oh, you’re amazing. Oh, no one’s as smart as you. It’s okay, you didn’t mean to go out drinking and crash the car and get three DUIs. It’s not your fault”. They need that. They need someone to mirror that back. That prevents them from feeling vulnerable. They see vulnerability in someone else as a weakness, and they feel entitled to exploit someone who has vulnerability.
Carrie Ann: Oh, I see. So that’s perfect as an empath. What people maybe don’t recognize is as empaths we’re not only vulnerable, we’re also highly intuitive. I think what I’ve learned from listening to you is that it’s really important to listen to the deeper self that actually does know how to take care of you. What is good advice for an empath so that they don’t choose another narcissist? How can they create a boundary?
Lisa A. Romano: This is why I talk so much about what codependency symptoms feel and look like, because I didn’t know that I was a codependent, yet I was. When I started to research, I realized that I knew what it felt like. Then I saw codependency in almost everyone. People need to know that sometimes trying to control a person is codependent. Maybe you just bought a person a beautiful bridal shower gift and you’re pissed off because it’s not all over Instagram – that’s codependency. You’re looking for a sense of self in this person celebrating you. You want to be recognized, noticed. You’re doing things because you need to feel like you’re seen by others. That’s not good, right? What we have to do first is recognize who we are. How do we show up in relationships? Am I attracting narcissists? Well, I’m the common denominator. None of these men know each other.
Carrie Ann: Right? I was like, oh, it’s me.
Lisa A. Romano: Right? None of these people knew each other! They lived in different zip codes. So I had to get real with myself and say, “oh my God, this is me”. You have to identify. You have to take stock of that. And then you have to recognize why you’re doing it, because it’s not your fault.
If you’re an empath, you can be one with no codependent tendencies and still absorb the energies of other people, because it’s natural for you. You process the world through the emotional body. It’s just the way you were born. Some people believe that empaths are created because of the trauma, and I believe there’s truth in that. I think the one of the reasons I have so much empathy is because I experienced such little empathy in my life. I couldn’t imagine bullying someone because I was bullied. I couldn’t imagine hurting someone and inflicting on them what I experienced.
As a codependent and as an empath, you have to recognize who you are, and pay attention to yourself and how you show up. Then you have to develop grounding techniques, and understand what a codependent thought is and what it’s not. You have to know what your intentions are. You have to self-love, and you need boundaries.
Carrie Ann: There’s so much incredible information here, but one of the things that stands out to me is if you notice yourself looking for your value from others, that’s where you have to be careful.
We hope that through this conversation we have demystified and clarified a few of the buzzwords that you’ve seen in the self-help world. Lisa has such a depth of knowledge in this area, and many resources to check out if you’re interested in hearing more! She has meditations on Insight Timer, as well as several books. Links to more information on Lisa are below!
For more information and resources on Lisa A. Romano, view the links below: Her websiteHer 12 week courseHer books – “I suggest you read my books in the following order,: The Road Back To Me, My Road Beyond the Codependent Divorce, Codependent Now What? It’s Not You-It’s Your Programming, Quantum Tools To Help You Heal Your Life Now, and Loving The Self Affirmations 1 & 2.” – Lisa A. Romano
Jane Massengill is a master certified coach and licensed social worker. She found coaching over 20 years ago when she was working with a group of psychiatrists who were exploring and expanding treatment for adults with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. A new profession in its infancy, coaching was exactly what Jane was looking for to bridge the gap between the internal personal growth work she was doing as a therapist and the external restructuring her clients needed with daily challenges such as getting to work on time, keeping a daily schedule or creating an exercise routine. She quickly fell into being among a small group of professionals in the country who had experience as a therapist with the training of a coach, plus years of work with adults with ADHD in a clinic setting. It put her in a unique position to write a chapter on ADD Coaching in Dr. Daniel Amen’s New York Times bestselling book, Healing ADD, and to participate in creating the first set of guidelines for ADD Coaches for the newly formed Adult Attention Deficit Disorder Association.
This article is an excerpt from Carrie Ann’s March 3rd, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Jane Massengill. It has been edited for length and clarity.
While ADHD (Attention-deficit / hyperactivity Disorder) is a fairly new type of mental diagnosis (it wasn’t recognized by the American Psychiatric Association until the 1960’s, and the “hyperactivity” component was not added until the 1980’s), it is also one of the most common. Many of us are related to someone, or at least know an individual with ADHD, yet a stigma still seems to shroud the disorder. When we imagine someone with ADHD, a lot of us picture that busy boy in class that can’t sit still. The truth is that ADHD has many faces, which is why it can often get missed in childhood. Many people do not even realize they have the disorder until their own children are diagnosed and they connect the dots. This is especially true for women, who don’t always present with that stereotypical case of hyperactivity. If you’re unfamiliar with the disorder or simply curious to learn more, we were lucky enough to have Carrie Ann’s personal ADHD coach, Jane Massengill, dispel common misconceptions and share her own story.
Carrie Ann: On our on our first episode of “Carrie Ann Conversations: Journey to Wellness”, I spoke with Dr. Daniel Amen and shared my ADHD diagnosis. It was Dr. Amen who referred me to you, and suggested I speak with you. Can you share with everyone how you started working with ADHD patients? And how an ADHD coach is different from a life coach?
Jane Massengill: Great question. It’s really interesting, I was thinking about this this morning. When I first started out as a social worker in the early 80s, there was no such thing as adult ADHD. It was really just a diagnosis and kids. I ended up meeting Dr. Amen when I moved to California, because I wanted to work with a psychiatrist and work with families. So at the time, the only thing we had was the Yellow Pages. I called every psychiatrist in the Yellow Pages and Amen begins with A, so I met him the next day. Dan hired me on the spot. He had actually just finished his residency, so he had just started his practice. So we started working together in the late 80s, and were seeing a lot of parents that had kids with ADHD. Right around that same time, Dan started doing brain imaging, and I volunteered to have a scan. Through that process, I learned about my own ADHD.
Carrie Ann: Wait, is that the first time that you realized you had ADHD?
Jane Massengill: Absolutely. Yeah, I was doing all of these evaluations with people at the Amen clinic. I had left the clinic for about four years when my kids were really little. When I came back, Dan was doing these scans and he needed a bunch of people with healthy brains to volunteer. After the diagnosis, I remember thinking, this just makes so much sense. He said he didn’t expect it, but he didn’t see a lot of my own struggles that weren’t showing up in the workplace. He didn’t see the stuff in the background, you know, what my piles looked like at home and how I worked really hard to just try to keep it together. So it was such a relief to me when I had that diagnosis. I think it is for most people, Carrie Ann I think you said earlier that it helped you connect the dots. That’s what it was like for me, a light bulb.
Carrie Ann: Yeah, it really brought it together. And you’re right, it connected the dots for me. When we first started working together, I remember that you asked me if I had kids, because you said a lot of parents don’t even know they have ADHD until their children get to a certain age. Then they start to see it, and feel overwhelmed in their life. Why is it so difficult, not knowing that you have ADHD?
Jane Massengill: Yes, that was absolutely true for me. I mean, my diagnosis happened right in the middle of when my kids were really little. I was juggling a lot of stuff and trying to try to work. Again, it was just a big aha.
Carrie Ann: It was such a big aha for me too. And it really helped me understand a lot of things. As a child and for most of my life, I’ve always felt a bit different. Some parents will tell you, oh, no, you’re not special. But that’s not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that I think my brain is a little different. But parents always try to keep you in line, and keep your feet on the floor. My mom was always doing that, she would go “oh, I don’t know about that”. There’s a lot of misconceptions out there about ADHD, especially adult ADHD. So first of all, what is ADHD?
Jane Massengill: Great question. ADHD is a genetically and biologically based syndrome. I like to think of it as a way of being in the world, but there is biology to it. There absolutely is clear science. There’s no disputing any of that. When you’re an adult with ADHD, you have issues with attention and focus, and doing things that are routine, that are boring. The opposite is true, though, too. Attention Deficit is such a misguided term, actually. We don’t have a deficit of attention. We have so much attention, we don’t know what to do with it! That’s the biggest challenge. So It’s all about learning how to bring that attention under control. That’s really the challenge.
Carrie Ann: I’m an open book, so I’ve been running around telling all my friends that I have ADHD. And I can see in some of their eyes that they don’t believe me, or they think that I’m just being a hypochondriac. Because when you have autoimmune conditions, you’re also often accused of being a hypochondriac. As I’ve done my research, working with you and Dr. Amen and reading every book possible about ADHD, I’ve realized that it’s just a different way of thinking. We can’t control the speed at which our brain wants to focus on things, so sometimes it hyper focuses and sometimes it wanders down the street. Is that a good way to describe it?
Jane Massengill: That’s a wonderful description. One of my favorite ADHD books, “ADHD 2.0: New Science and Essential Strategies for Thriving with Distraction” by Edward Hallowell and John Ratey, talks about this. Dr. Hallowell says that when you have ADHD, it’s like having a Ferrari brain with bicycle brakes. When you have ADHD, you prefrontal cortex, which is kind of like your supervisor or your secretary, is not functioning like it does for everybody else. So, you have issues with what they call “executive functioning”. I think of that as an executive secretary that’s just out to lunch. And sometimes that person comes back. And sometimes they don’t. You don’t always know when they’re going to come back. You can’t trust them to always be there for you. That is why learning how to manage it, working with a coach, and getting treatment for it will help – you’re training your manager.
Carrie Ann: I know it’s very important to manage your ADHD. You were telling me some statistics last time we did a session about unmanaged ADHD, can you share them?
Jane Massengill: Russell Barkley is a psychologist who’s been researching ADHD for 40 years now, and I had the honor of working with him when I worked at UMass Medical Center. He came up with research a couple of years ago, which absolutely blew my mind. This research says that if you are an undiagnosed, untreated, unmanaged adult with ADHD, your estimated life expectancy is up to 12 years shorter than everybody else’s. I mean, that’s a lot of time. And if you think about it, you’re more prone to accidents, car crashes, and not managing your health when you have untreated ADHD.
Carrie Ann: What about eating and stress? I think unmanaged ADHD had an effect on my autoimmune condition. This has been a hidden key to helping me feel better, because I noticed that my stress is escalates when my ADHD is unmanaged. And that’s why you have been such a blessing in my life, because you really taught me how to manage it.
Jane Massengill: It’s funny, when I when I share that statistic, everybody has a story. I just shared it with a colleague of mine yesterday, and she was telling me that when she was in her early 30s she found a spot on her hand. And her friend said look, you need to go get that spot on your hand checked. But it became one of those things that she just kept procrastinating on. When she finally saw the doctor, he said if she would have waited one more month, it would have killed her. It was melanoma. So I just think it’s there’s so many things. I think about my own family. My father was killed in a car accident when he was 48 years old. He was a policeman, and a lot of people with ADHD end up going towards those types of professions. But ADHD wasn’t around then. When I look back, it certainly makes me question if he was undiagnosed and died early because he was staying up really late, and probably not paying attention while he was driving. So ADHD is something worth paying attention to.
Carrie Ann: First of all, I’m so sorry about your loss. I didn’t know that. And it’s interesting when you do find out about your ADHD, you can kind of look back through your life and track how it may or may not have affected you.
I’ve also noticed that people often think of ADHD in a stereotypical way. They think ADHD only looks like a little boy in class who can’t sit still, who’s hitting the girls and having emotional outbursts. But look, that is not what I looked like growing up, and I’m sure that’s not what you looked like. You just mentioned that people with ADHD could be more accident prone. What are the other signs of somebody who has ADHD?
Jane Massengill: It looks different in everybody, and that’s why it’s hard to pin down for some people. People don’t necessarily understand it, there’s a lot of misconceptions. And some people – if you think of ADHD as an arc – barely meet the criteria for diagnosis. Other people have it on a much more extreme scale. It’s also an invisible disorder, so it’s harder to see sometimes. In adults, it can look like bouncing around. Many of my clients have these big balls that they sit on when we do coaching sessions, or they stand up. I always support that kind of stuff. Women are oftentimes missed with being diagnosed, especially as kids, because they’re the quiet ones that are sitting in the corner, not making any trouble. As adults, a lot of women with ADHD are afraid to engage because it feels too scary. They are more focused on wanting to do things that are less out in the world, and don’t push themselves to go out and do things.
Carrie Ann: I remember when I was younger, before I was diagnosed, someone said to me “oh, you have analysis paralysis”. And I sure do!
Jane Massengill: But you can also have hyper focus on things that you really love. A good friend of mine, Rick Carson, who wrote “Taming Your Gremlin”, told me once that I was like a pit bull on a rump roast. So when we are passionate about something we can dig in and not want to let go. When I first learned about ADHD, I read every single book that was out there, because I wanted to learn everything I possibly could about myself and about the people that I was working with. The benefit of that is we are really good at things that we love. The challenge of that is we sometimes don’t know when to stop, and we can burn ourselves out. And we don’t know when enough is enough. Almost everything with ADHD is a double edged sword.
Carrie Ann: One of the things that I’ve learned from working with you is that I need stand up against my brain. My brain wants to run away from a task that I know I need to do. I can walk by something on the floor 100 times, but that is not because I’m lazy, or that I don’t want to pick it up off the floor. Except that now I know that I have to actually put more effort into stopping and taking that moment to finish something. If it’s a short or mundane task, I can struggle with it. Even brushing my teeth in the morning. I do it every morning, but I’m always trying to talk myself out of it. I talk myself around it, like maybe I’ll do it this way. Maybe I’ll change the way I do it. It’s challenging. And I say all these things because I want people to understand that. You may not have ADHD, but you may struggle with some of the things that we’re talking about. And if you do have it, it doesn’t mean you’re limited in any way.
Did anything that Jane had to say surprise you? There’s so much to learn about ADHD, and a lot of what we know can lead to misconceptions! As Jane mentioned, the term “attention deficit” itself can be misleading – people with ADHD are also known to possess extreme focus. We hope that this conversation informed your own understanding of the disorder, or satisfied your curiosity. Factual information is the key to destigmatizing anything. Let us know your thoughts in the comments below, we’d love to hear what resonated with you.
Jane Massengill is a master certified coach and licensed social worker. She found coaching over 20 years ago when she was working with a group of psychiatrists who were exploring and expanding treatment for adults with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. A new profession in its infancy, coaching was exactly what Jane was looking for to bridge the gap between the internal personal growth work she was doing as a therapist and the external restructuring her clients needed with daily challenges such as getting to work on time, keeping a daily schedule or creating an exercise routine. She quickly fell into being among a small group of professionals in the country who had experience as a therapist with the training of a coach, plus years of work with adults with ADHD in a clinic setting. It put her in a unique position to write a chapter on ADD Coaching in Dr. Daniel Amen’s New York Times bestselling book, Healing ADD, and to participate in creating the first set of guidelines for ADD Coaches for the newly formed Adult Attention Deficit Disorder Association.
This article is an excerpt from Carrie Ann’s March 3rd, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Jane Massengill. It has been edited for length and clarity.
Everyone can have issues with attention and focus – ADHD diagnosis or not. Our attention is constantly being pulled in every direction, and it’s never been harder to center ourselves and clear the clutter surrounding us. It’s no wonder that the wellness and self-help industries are at their largest, and that meditation has become part of mainstream culture. However, the saturation of the self-help market inevitably leads to confusion. Which tools are the best? How do I find what works for me? This is where coaches come in handy (check our are latest article on health coaches here – link Jim Curtis), because they know how to navigate the waters. If you’ve been feeling like it’s been difficult to focus, ADHD coach Jane Massengill has tried and true tools for you that you can implement right now.
Carrie Ann: What are some of the tools that can help ADHD? Because everybody says meditate, but what else is there? And why does meditation really help?
Jane Massengill: You don’t actually have to have a diagnosis of ADHD to benefit from the things that we’re talking about. Everybody can benefit from this, especially with the onset of the internet and so many distractions. Whether you have ADHD or not, our attention is constantly pulled, so it helps to know how to focus it. I think it’s no surprise that there’s been such a rise in meditation and mindfulness, because it absolutely helps us come to the present moment and quiet down some of the other things that are going on around us.
Meditation helps because it’s a practice of shifting your attention – taming your gremlin and quieting that monster of the mind. A book that I use all the time is “Taming Your Gremlin” by Rick Carson. Love it. For me personally, it really helped me understand that I can actually shift my attention. When I first got diagnosed with ADHD, I used to think my attention was like a fish on the bottom of a boat, just flopping around, and there was nothing I could do about it. I mean, that’s what it feels like oftentimes, right? But with meditation and with quieting the monster, you’re bringing your attention right back to your physical body, to your breath.
Carrie Ann: Oh, I see. I like to call it discipline. I’ve realized that if I’m not disciplined in the way my mind works, then it will go all over the place. Since working with you, I’ve realized that I need to be more disciplined without putting pressure on myself. Is that kind of what you’re saying, that with mediation we are learning how to build those muscles that support a better life with ADHD?
Jane Massengill: Absolutely. And then there are other tools. My clients will tell you that I’m a timer queen, I always have timers around me. I have a little timer in my office that I oftentimes set for 30 minutes if I’ve got something I want to keep my attention focused on. One of the things that happens with ADHD is what they call “time blindness”. I was actually talking to a client last night and he said, “my wife used to always say, if you loved me, you’d be on time”. And that makes me want to educate people all the more about what ADHD is all about, because it’s not about not caring about somebody and their time. It’s not being able to really understand what 10 minutes feels like, or what 15 minutes feels like. So I’m a major proponent of a watch that has a timer on it. Just this morning already used it half a dozen times, just to help me stay on track. So timers are a big one. Meditation is a big one.
Carrie Ann: What about lists? I’m a big list person.
Jane Massengill: Yeah, absolutely. Making lists, having something physical to help remind you, are what I think of as having homes for things in your mind. If you’ve got 15 things you’re thinking of all at the same time, making a list helps you do a brain dump. Any kind of tool that help you get a sense of time, like a big wall calendar, will help. I always have a poster sized calendar for the whole year, because it lets you stand back and see an entire 12 months at a time.
Carrie Ann: Yes, especially with autoimmune conditions, if you have a bird’s eye view of what the month looks like, you can schedule in time to rest. And you can you can make better decisions, because personally, I have a tendency to overbook myself. I get super excited about things, but then I can’t do them because I’ve said yes to seven things at the same time.
Now, one of the things that you taught me that I thought was so fascinating was the VARK test. You said that this can help anybody, whether you have ADHD or not. It teaches us about our learning style, which I thought was really interesting. How does that help somebody with ADHD or somebody who doesn’t have ADHD?
Jane Massengill: Well, we’re constantly learning and it helps to know what our style of learning is. And so whether you have ADHD or not, I recommend this test, especially for parents and their kids. VARK stands for visual, aural, read / write, and kinesthetic. It helps you communicate with not only other people around you, but understand how you communicate with yourself as well. And you, Carrie Ann, are actually are four-part learner. For example, one of yours is writing things down. So anybody that is working with you on your team needs to know that.
I’m also working with a college student right now who is a four-part learner. He really struggled with trying to get a project done, until he started realizing, okay, I need to make a diagram about this, I need to talk with somebody about it, I need to have a live example of somebody actually doing this, and I need to take notes. Then he can get it. But without knowing that, you struggle and you start beating yourself up. So I think the VARK test is a brilliant contribution that is super affordable, and can help anybody.
Carrie Ann: As somebody who’s also a four-part learner, that just means that in order for me to learn something, I kind of need to do it four different ways for it to sink in. And that did frustrate me because I was like, why am I such a slow learner, yet I’m also so fast? I pick up things so quickly, all the nuances in a room, and I can just feel it all. That’s what makes me good on live television. I feel like it’s my superpower. I’m aware of everything all at once, and I can respond to it or not. And the VARK test has helped me to know that it’s going to take me a few more steps. I actually learned patience with myself, which is something that you have really helped me with.
Jane Massengill: Yeah, not beat yourself up. Because that monster in your mind is always going to be right there at the edge to take you down.
Carrie Ann: I know there’s people who just think ADHD is BS, right? So what do you say to people like that? How do you help them to understand, or do they even need to understand?
Jane Massengill: Well, I do always want to reiterate that ADHD is not a belief, it’s not like a religion. It is a brain based set of issues set of challenges. Which by the way, it can really be improved. In fact, last week I saw a brain scan that was 20 years old. And we compared it to a new scan, and it was so hopeful to see the neuroplasticity of the brain, and how you can really improve your prefrontal cortex. So it is real. I think the most important thing to understand is that it’s invisible, and everybody has certain traits or characteristics that can look like ADHD. But if you have ADHD, you’re going to have more of a lifelong challenge with attention, distractibility, and focus. So it’s important for people to just have empathy, and educate yourself or stay open.
Carrie Ann: Stay open. That’s one of the things that I was surprised about in my work with you. Because it does require a certain level of discipline to get your ADHD in a manageable form for your life. And I’ve noticed that you have so much compassion when you help me, and that we often get into much deeper issues about things that I’m afraid of. When I tell you I’m struggling with something, what I love is that you don’t just go, oh, that’s just ADHD. You’re always like, well, what are you afraid of? What’s happening there? What are the possible outcomes? And I find that to be so nurturing. And so very healing. So if somebody were to go and seek out the help of a coach in their lifetime, what would the what advice would you give them in what to look for?
Jane Massengill: I think it’s really important to make sure that you connect with somebody. I always tell people it’s helpful to interview two or three coaches and make sure there’s a bond. So interview some people, and make sure that you are working with somebody that has some background and knowledge on what ADHD is all about.
Carrie Ann: You have been coaching for a long time, so I’m very curious to know if there is an area of life that people struggle with the most?
Jane Massengill: Absolutely – self-confidence. It’s probably top of the heap. If you’ve been told your entire life that you’re a square peg in a round hole, and you don’t fit in, you’re going to start to question yourself. And not give yourself credit when you do achieve great things. So I think the process of coaching is about helping you find your unique shape, you know, to get out of that square peg in a round hole mentality. There’s also healing to be done from some of the scars of the past. So that’s always a big thing.
Organization of time and space is always a big thing, and just struggling with getting the mundane things done on a regular basis. In fact, one of the things I started a couple of years ago is a three hour time management workshop. It’s called the Get Er’ Done Workshop and we do it on Zoom. Everybody starts with this list of things to do that’s very typical, like getting the dishes done, making phone calls, etc. It’s an accountability group, but I’m coaching people the whole time. So everyone shares who they are, what they’re working on, and what they’ll be doing for the first hour. We set a timer, and then everybody turns their camera off. I stay behind the screens. And you go and do your work, then come back at the top of every hour for 10 minutes to check in with me. I always have people listen for their distractions and ask what got in the way. So there’s coaching, but it’s also about just knowing that you’re not alone, and that there are other people that are very successful in life and struggle with some of the same challenges.
Carrie Ann: I love that you’re building a community for people. And, you know, it’s funny, as I listen to this conversation, I can feel even more that I’m not separate. I can also tell that some people are going to read this and be like, what are you talking about? But you know what, for people who have it, that workshop just sounds so enticing. I often feel better when there’s somebody around and it’s easier to get my projects done. I know that there are people out there that this is also resonating with, so how do they sign up for the Get ‘Er Done workshop?
Jane Massengill: Yes, they can go to my website, janemassengill.com. And they can use code conversations (lowercase or uppercase) for 60% off the price!
Carrie Ann: I love it. You’re so good at what you do, and I am grateful that you have come into my life and that I have you as a resource. And I think in this world, we’re all kind of struggling – these are difficult times. So knowing that there’s people that you can reach out to and get help from is amazing. I just have one final thought. I want to know where your compassion comes from, because you just have so much of it!
Jane Massengill: Thank you. I grew up in a community in Canton, Ohio, and my dad was a policeman and my mom was a nurse. All my all my relatives were teachers or in some kind of service industry. And I knew at a very early age that I wanted to be a social worker. After my father died, I had a couple of teachers that really took me under their wing. I think they were really pivotal for me in terms of helping me connect with that thing that’s inside of me that wants to do something important in the world for other people. So I just feel incredibly blessed that I’ve been able to clear out some of the clutter from my ADHD so I can connect with and help other people.
Carrie Ann: I love it. You’re following your dreams, and you help everybody that you work with follow their dreams. You’re helping me fulfill that right now with Carrie Ann Conversations.
Already planning a trip to the app store to browse meditation apps? If you’re interested, we have an article here on Carrie Ann’s favorite meditations on the app Insight Timer. In fact, Lisa Romano, a life coach we recently interviewed, has her own guided meditations on the app.
We hope this conversation gave you something new to think about. If something resonated with you, let us know in comments below! We would love to hear from you.
Madisyn Taylor is the cofounder and former editor-in-chief of DailyOM. She is the author of Unmedicated. The Four Pillars of Natural Wellness (January 2018) and an award-winning and bestselling author of two previous books including DailyOM: Inspirational Thoughts for a Happy, Healthy, and Fulfilling Day (#1 Amazon self-help, #3 Amazon overall) and DailyOM: Learning to Live (#1 Amazon self-help, #7 Amazon overall). Her books have been translated into more than fifteen languages. Madisyn has also been a contributing author for Oprah.com. This article is an excerpt from Carrie Ann’s January 20th, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Madisyn Taylor. It has been edited for length and clarity.
How many times have you tried the latest wellness trend only to not achieve the results you were hoping for? Maybe you gave meditation a shot, and it just wasn’t for you. Maybe your friend told you about the latest self help book that changed their life, but reading isn’t the way you learn best. If there’s one thing we’ve learned here at Carrie Ann Conversations, it’s that there are many approaches to wellness and it’s perfectly normal to go through trial and error! That’s something that our guest, Madisyn Taylor, preaches as well. Madisyn has gone through trauma and come out on the other side determined to help people begin their journey to achieve ultimate wellness. Her tools are vast and she uses her own experiences to inspire others to make changes in their lives. We loved having her on Carrie Ann Conversations: Journey to Wellness, and can’t wait for you to hear what she has to say!
Carrie Ann: Welcome to a another Carrie Ann Conversations Journey to Wellness. Today, I want to talk about healing. Whether that be from past trauma, confronting your fears, or just resetting your minds to stop self-sabotaging. I don’t know if you guys do that, but I know I’m certainly guilty of it. Joining us today in this conversation is a best-selling author, meditation specialist, and my new friend, Madisyn Taylor. She’s also the Co-Founder of DailyOM, and author of the book of the same name.
Madisyn, thank you for joining me. I have been reading the DailyOM for years. It’s basically my nightstand and bathroom reading all the time. It’s one of those books that I just always turn back to whenever I’m lost. And you have helped me so much in my struggles, before I even knew that I had a journey to go on. Would you mind telling my viewers about the DailyOM?
Madisyn Taylor: Yes, we started it way back in 2004, which seems like forever ago. The purpose of it really was to help people get on their own journeys and have their own lightbulb moments. We did that by having me write sort of, I guess a daily essay if you will, that comes to your inbox every morning. The idea was that people would all be thinking these good thoughts at the same time while they’re having their coffee in the morning. The essays really were about my own life journey, but I didn’t write it in a first person perspective because I didn’t want it to be about me. I wanted everyone to be able to relate to it. It was everything from relationships, to depression, anxiety, to trauma – just things that we all go through every day. And that we need help with because I don’t know about you, but I didn’t get an instruction manual when I was born. I didn’t know how to navigate any of the stuff that was happening to me. So I thought that I could finally put all of my years of experience, all of my loss, all of my trauma, and all of my learning into helping other people. Back in 2004 the internet really wasn’t that popular yet, so we took the email perspective of that. And then the business model of it was to sell online courses in that same genre. Now it’s anything from yoga, to relationships, and everything in between.
Carrie Ann: It’s really quite an amazing destination. It has everything.
Madisyn Taylor: Yes, there’s something for everybody. But what was important to me was to have it affordable to everybody. So you can take a course for $15, which I think is phenomenal. And these are six week courses to one year courses. It’s not a one day or a few hour thing. I know in my own healing journey, I could not afford all of the healing that I needed. Acupuncturists, psychiatrists, and all these specialists are a minimum of $100 each session and if you don’t have insurance, you’re kind of screwed. I really, really, wanted to have healing available to everybody. So my daily essays were free, and that was my service work to humanity. Then the business model was the courses, but at an affordable rate.
Carrie Ann: It’s attainable for everyone, and that’s why I love it so much. Part of Carrie Ann Conversations Journey to Wellness is all about spreading accessibility to wellness. Hopefully people can find just a tidbit here and there, something that resonates with them, even if they don’t know it’s resonating. Something that sounds interesting to them, so that they can maybe do their own research and head out into their own discovery. Because as we both know, it’s a journey.
Now, let’s move on. I’ve heard you talking about fear, and I think that plays such a huge factor in this conversation about healing from trauma. So what are the most common fears that you think we all share? Because this is about building community, finding places where we are similar, right? How can we turn the fear switch off or down?
Madisyn Taylor: It’s kind of funny, the two most common fears that everybody has are getting what you want and losing what you have. Imagine, oh, I got a million dollars, I really wanted that. And then oh my god, the taxman wants some, my best friend wants something. Now you’re in fear of having it all go away.
Carrie Ann: Say it again, one more time, because that’s powerful. What are the two fears that you think everybody has?
Madisyn Taylor: Getting what you want, and then losing what you have. Getting it and then losing it. Those are the fears that that humans have. But really, the fear that people have is doing the deep dive. You and I know that in order to heal, you have to do the deep dive, you have to peel the layers. I’m a big baby steps person, and I don’t believe in going to the center nugget right away. You’ve got to peel the outer layers. It really is like an onion. Every baby step serves a purpose. And if you dive in too deep, too fast, you’re going to get scared and you’re never going to go back. So my work is about gentle baby steps.
My big tip is to make a list of your fears, and then go right into all of them and write as much as you can about each fear. What is the fear? How does it make you feel? How is it affecting your life? Because it is and you may not know it. And then what I like to do – I’m giving homework and I love to give homework-
Carrie Ann: I love you for giving homework, you’re my kind of girl!
Madisyn Taylor: Thank you! Once you write down your fear and how it makes you feel – and writing about it may make you feel nervous – write a counter thought to that fear. That’s how you’re going to start healing the fear. Let’s take something really simple, like I’m afraid of flying. It makes me shake like a leaf. I think about it for three days beforehand, I start stressing, I get nervous. I’m worried I’m going to miss my flight, that I’m going to sit next to someone that’s going to smell bad, that we’re going to crash, I hate turbulence, all of this stuff. So I write it all down, and I feel the anxiety coming up.
Then I think, what can I do about that? Well, I can tell the flight attendant I’m nervous, and she or he will pay a lot more attention to you. I can talk to my neighbor sitting next to me and say I’m feeling a little nervous. I do that every single flight, and they turn out to be like a therapist for me. I can bring comfort items on the plane, right? That’s kind of an example that’s not super personal in terms of fears. It’s personal to me, but it’s not a deep seated fear. So name it and claim it, and then write a solution to it or a counter statement to your fear. You will look at it all in your journal as one unit and say, wow, you know what, that’s not as bad as I thought it was.
Carrie Ann: Oh my God, that’s wonderful. Name it, claim it, gather it into a manageable amount, look at it, and realize it’s not as big as you’re making it. I think when you write it down, it really does help you. I find that things, when they’re still in your mind, they become huge, right? We have to remember as human beings that we are so powerful with what we can do with one little idea. We can turn it into something amazing. That’s the power of creation. However, the power of creation can also create a huge monster that’s chasing us at every turn. We can run faster, or we can put it in perspective, which is what you just did. That’s a great tip.
In your own journey through trauma to wellness you’ve spent a lot of time defining things and putting things into words for people. How would you define wellness now, here in 2022, after all that you’ve been through?
Madisyn Taylor: I think that wellness is not a one size fits all scenario. It’s going to look a little different for all of us, our packaging is different. But what’s really important is that it can’t be segmented. Wellness needs to be body, mind, and spirit, the trifecta. They really need to go together. You can’t have full wellness without having wellness in all of those areas. And it’s all attainable. I know it can sound a little overwhelming, but again, if you take your baby steps it’s definitely attainable. Once you fix one of them, you’ll find that the others tend to fall into place. I mean, you are this amazing temple, this healing machine. And you always hear those terms when you’re a little kid, like the hip bone is connected to the backbone. We are all connected.
Those three things intertwine and work together to make a healthy human being. It’s really important, but most people ignore one of those. We always really go for the physical health, but the mind and the spiritual health are equally as important. Spiritual health is really about journaling and meditation, maybe having an altar and those sorts of practices. It’s not about religion or going to church, although that could be it for some people. Then the mind is brain health, which of course you talked about with that brilliant doctor last week.
Carrie Ann: Yes, Dr. Amen. That was a great conversation. You know, these conversations, they’re mostly for me. Because I just love talking about wellness, and I love hearing about other people’s journeys. I love hearing other people’s perspective, because as you say, the journey is unique and individual to each one of us. It took me looking at 1000 trillion different things to figure out what’s working. And look, in three months, different things are going to work. It’s constantly a work in progress. Wellness is not a one and done kind of thing. Madisyn has got like 8,000 different ways to approach wellness. And that’s because she’s been studying it for so long, because she needed to for her own journey in life. That’s what my wish is for all of you – that you can find wellness. The way to do it is to keep experimenting and working on it. It’s something that takes work just like building your home, or building your family and raising your children. It’s the same thing. You are an entity that is worthy of all the love, caring, and all the wellness that could possibly come your way.
Experimenting, working, and building. That’s what healing and the road to wellness entails, but it’s so rewarding when you start to see a shift in your life. Especially when you begin to fit all of the pieces together, as Madisyn said. The mind, body, and spirit are interconnected and of equal importance. Don’t be afraid to take baby steps and work through one area at a time – the puzzle pieces will fall into place at the right time. If you’re interested in hearing more about Madisyn’s story and watching the full interview, you can view it here!
You can find Madisyn Taylor’s books, social media, online courses, and other resources at these links:
Instagram: @mtmadisyntaylorMadisyn’s websiteAmazon bookstoreDailyOm
John Amaral is an energy practitioner, author, educator and founder of the Energy Flow Formula, a somatic energy healing practice. Originally trained as a chiropractor, John developed the Formula over 25 years of working with thousands of people from more than 50 countries. His clients include A-list celebrities, entrepreneurs, athletes, influencers and thought-leaders. John uses the unique principles of the Energy Flow Formula to help his clients heal physical injuries, reduce stress, anxiety, and depression, and reach and sustain new levels of energy, clarity, and fulfillment so they can feel and live better. Most recently, John appeared in the Goop Labs Netflix series with Gwyneth Paltrow. He has also been featured a number of podcasts, including Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey, founder of Bulletproof.
This article is an excerpt from Carrie Ann’s March 24th, 2022 Instagram Live conversation with Dr. John Amaral. It has been edited for length and clarity.
Have you ever wondered about the “aura” or energy you unconsciously put out into the world? We’ve all said “oh, I like his/her energy” at some point, whether or not we actually understood why we felt this way. It’s just a feeling we get, or an instinct. If you’ve ever wanted to dive deeper into that feeling and explore your own personal energy, Dr. John Amaral is the guest for you! He calls our “vibes” or “auras” the “energy body” that radiates off of our beings. And there’s a lot more to that energy body than you’d think! Read on to hear about what your energy blueprint is and how you can tap into it.
Carrie Ann: I know you talk about an energy blueprint. What is that? How does that work?
Dr. John Amaral: What I call the energy blueprint is the hard wiring you came into this world with. Everybody has kind of a unique style and way of experiencing and processing life. The blueprint has to do with different frequencies, bandwidths, or layers. You might call it the energy body. There is a field of energy around the physical body that radiates out, and it can be many feet off the body. You can measure the electromagnetic field with instruments three to five feet or so off the body.
Carrie Ann: Is it like an aura?
Dr. John Amaral: Aura is another name for it. Some people call it subtle body or the subtle energy body. And people call it the koshas in vedic tradition, like yoga. There are all different names, and different cultures have different names for it. It’s a real thing. It’s kind of a non-thing thing.
Carrie Ann: Even though we can’t see it, it’s real.
Dr. John Amaral: Some people can see it. We have our five senses, and some people can read or see auras, right? So our five senses pick up this subtle energy that is sort of invisible. It’s like another dimension. You can’t see radio waves, you can’t see x-rays, you can’t see infrared.
Carrie Ann: But they’re there, and they’re working!
Dr. John Amaral: And they will affect you. If you are exposed to radiation, it will cause damage. If you tune your antenna into radio frequencies, they’re there. You just set your antenna and you pick up those different frequencies. So, their energies exist, we’re just seeing a tiny bandwidth. We can only see a very, very small bandwidth of the visual field. Everything from gamma radiation, which are really tiny waves, all the way out to radio waves, which span mountains, are there. That’s part of what the energy body is – frequencies of energy that most people don’t see, but some do. For some people it’s more of a feeling, or it’s kinesthetic. Some people hear sounds and tones, but we all have various ways of tuning into this energy around us. There’s actually research on the sense of being stared at. People from around the world have an ability to sense if somebody’s staring at them.
Carrie Ann: For sure! You can feel it.
Dr. John Amaral: And this is non-local, it could be somewhere else in the world. There’s also more research on dogs knowing when their owners are coming home, even if they’re 50 miles away. When they leave the office, the dogs get off the couch. Rupert Shelldrake wrote a book about this. So there’s some nonphysical, energetic, invisible field that we’re tuned into. And this is really where things are going in the 21st century. There’s a lot of movement into what Nikola Tesla called the age of energy. We have devices now, MRIs, which measure fluctuations in energy, that give us a picture. So, we’re using tools to measure energy, and we’re going to be using more and more techniques and approaches that work with energy in a more conscious way. And the blueprint is my approach to that subtle energy body, and my way of working with that and helping people learn how to work with it themselves. Once you understand your blueprint, there are certain practices that will help you. There are certain things that may not be positive for you to be doing. Once you understand what that blueprint is, you can begin to do self-care. For example, can we talk about your blueprint.
Carrie Ann: Yes! So what is my blueprint?
Dr. John Amaral: So for you, there are these different aspects or layers of your energy body, and I’ll just kind of quickly run through them. There’s what’s called the etheric body or life force. It’s very close to the physical body. It’s like that layer of energy you feel when you just very lightly touch somebody. Maybe you’re about to hold someone’s hand, right?
Carrie Ann: (Laughing) That’s like my favorite kind of touch actually!
Dr. John Amaral: Yeah there’s a little vibration or heat. And that vital energy is not only in the physical body, but it’s also in all life – so plants and animals. That’s why sometimes when someone is feeling low energy they just hug their animal. They cuddle their dog and it’s like, yes, I feel better. That’s the life force energy. Then there’s emotional energy. Then there’s mental energy. Then there’s the energy that I call relational, that ties into your heart. The ability to receive and give in a relationship. Then you have what I would call the higher mind, which is tied into your ability to create meaning and optimize your life. And then there is what I would call your soul, the part that transcends the thinking mind. That is your connection to the infinite universe all around you. As you go out further from the physical body, it is an experience of expansion into those higher dimensions of your energy field.
So for you, you’re really connected. Everyone who knows you or has been around you knows that you have a radiance and a vibration. You bring a lot of joy and light, and you’re very connected. When I go off 4, 5, 6 feet from your body, you open up, there’s freedom, there’s flow. I would say you’re very resourced in that part of your energy blueprint. Your sense of yourself and the universe become blended into one. You also are very connected to your emotional. Sometimes we get energized by that energy within ourselves. And sometimes it takes other things outside of ourselves, or other people, to bring about that awareness. For you, when you’re around others, it lights up your emotions. With the way you’re wired, it would be more challenging to feel your own emotions by yourself, without some reference from others. I’m not saying you don’t feel deeply, but the expression of and ability to connect into the emotional body pulls you into relationships in a way that also helps you give your gifts. Even when I was working with you on the table, you said you were feeling this golden light.
Carrie Ann: I always feel golden light.
Dr. John Amaral: So you’re very golden, and that’s part of the energy blueprint. It’s your connection into that infinite field.
Carrie Ann: And that’s what this series is all about, is trying to spread the joy and spread awareness. But you talked about my emotional body pulling me into relationships with others, and that can lead to codependency. It can also lead to an anxious attachment style. I attach to people very quickly, and it’s really hard for me to detach from people. Do you think that could be part of the reason why?
Dr. John Amaral: Yeah, I think our attachment styles and how we were wired in our early years of life absolutely influences what parts of our blueprint get activated. I see the blueprint as something that’s there. It’s like you come into this world with it, and then how you activate it or what parts you’re not using as effectively is something that can be learned. If you had anxious attachment and you learned to get into these more codependent relationships, then by connecting to the emotional part of your energy body you can learn how to be in relationships with others without attaching in a dysfunctional way. You can start to take responsibility for your patterns, but allow the expression of that energy. And then learn how to feel your own emotions without necessarily that grasping or attachment. So there’s ways to work with this blueprint that kind of free you up from the attachment. It frees you up from the conditioning, and there’s an art and a science to it. Currently, I have a questionnaire around this and eventually we will make it so people can check to see what their personal blueprint is.
Carrie Ann: That’s very exciting, because I think that’s going to help a lot of people. You just talked about the relationships and how my previous style was a very codependent style, but I have been working on myself for the past 8 months. So, I want to know if you noticed a shift in the way my energy flowed? And if you notice a difference from the last time we worked together to now?
Dr. John Amaral: Yeah, I absolutely do. There’s a part of the blueprint that’s the life force energy, or you could call it the etheric body, and it’s that sense of life force. And that energy and that consciousness is tied into survival, certainty, and needing to keep it all together. And if we feel challenged and we don’t feel like we have enough flow of life force, we tend to tighten up because we’re trying to just stay safe.
Carrie Ann: Fight or flight.
Dr. John Amaral: Yes, fight or flight, and freeze mode. We freeze it all up, because I don’t feel like I have enough energy to make it through. If I freeze it all up, I’ll be safe. I’ll somehow be able to get through this. What I noticed working with you today is that there was more flow of life force. In your energy blueprint, the life force was activated in a healthy way. Which means you go from holding it all together to like, I’m here, I’m in this body. I’m grounded, I’m present, I’m alive and I’m safe in the world.
When I started working with you, it was immediately flowing. That told me that whatever work you’ve been doing in the time since we’ve worked together shifted you. You’ve shifted from that vigilant, protective, survival mode to more safety and more presence with your body. That was one of the challenges that has been going on for you, and for a lot of people. With the way you’re wired, it’s easy for you to connect to the place where you and the universe emerge. You can connect to that more easily than some people, but the challenge for you was staying connected to that while also coming into your body and being here in this physical body. That’s where I see a huge shift. You were both connected in that way and grounded in your body, which means you get to have that expanded state. You get to feel open, free, and awake at the same time, and still be here doing what you’re made to do.
Carrie Ann: I want to talk about the healing really quickly. During the healing, I move a lot. Some people have seen your viral healing videos with others moving around a lot and been like, is that an exorcism? There’s naysayers. And I’m just curious, what do you say to that? It’s not an exorcism, and I can speak to that. But I move, and some of it I’m doing because I feel good. Some of it is intentional because I’m letting things out. Some of it is not intentional.
Dr. John Amaral: This comes back to that conditioning. When is it appropriate to move your body in these ways? In the sessions, that’s an appropriate environment and a really safe place for you to just let it go. So when you’re working with the energy field, each layer of the blueprint has a different effect in the physical. Just like if you hold a magnet over a bunch of pieces of metal, it’ll move the metal. That magnetic field will influence the physical. The same thing happens in our bodies. Our sensory systems are picking up information and the body is going to move and respond. If you are driving in your car and you look in the rearview mirror and see flashing lights, you might have tension, stress, or stop breathing. And then they go by and you feel the big release, nothing touched you. It was just light. Nothing touched your body, but your body responded and went into tension.
The same thing can happen when something positive happens. You feel or sense someone’s energy feel that inspires you, or you feel your own connection to a higher sense of yourself. And all of a sudden your body opens up. Typically, when you relax, you go into extension. Your neck goes back, your heart lifts up, your arms open up. So when I’m working with people, I’m working on those different levels of the energy field and I’m looking for the physiology and the anatomy that shift. Part of it is unconscious, and the work influences your body directly. Your body will just respond without you doing anything. Part of it is interactive, where you’re like, oh, this feels good. I’m going to do that more.
Carrie Ann: Right. You and your energy creates a very safe space to allow the person on the table to release, and be free and completely authentic. Which we are not always able to be in life. And I think that’s a beautiful gift. You’ve talked about energy spots. What are those so that people can understand how you start to work?
Dr. John Amaral: When you have stress, an injury, a trauma, a loss, or an accident, whether that be physical, emotional, or psychological, they all create a similar kind of reaction in different ways. The body goes into fight or flight, it goes into protective mode. When that happens, you’re tightening everything up. Your breath gets more shallow. Your nervous system goes under tension, the tissues of your body tighten up. There’s a holding of energy, and when that energy starts flowing and releasing, there’s a discharge of that tension. And that’s where that movement can come from. The muscles and tendons are releasing, so someone might start vibrating just like animals will shake after they experience a stressful situation. And when I’m working with someone on the table, or I’m teaching someone how to work with this themselves, we want to identify the places where you can have access to your energy. The places that are most open and most free-flowing already. Which is interesting because most people think, well, it’s hurting here, it’s tight here.
Carrie Ann: So it’s not like acupuncture where you go to the pain and tight part.
Dr. John Amaral: Yeah, and interestingly, when they work with those points in the meridian system, acupuncturists don’t always go to that place of pain first. They want to open up the flow of energy so that it helps the whole system begin to relax.
Carrie Ann: So you go to the most open spot.
Dr. John Amaral: Yes, I go to the most open. It’s showing somebody, hey, you know that this is working really well? And they’re like, oh wow, hey, you know, I didn’t think of that. And it’s like, you know, you’re pretty amazing. And they’re like, I think I am! All of a sudden they start feeling more resourced. If we show your brain how to associate with a place in your body that is actually already flowing, it starts that circuit building. It starts building that pattern and then you go, oh wow. I can actually breathe more easily here. Now I can start to unwind this and now we will actually guide you into starting to change things. I call it generative, meaning you you’re putting a focus on something that’s working and you’re enhancing.
Carrie Ann: Oh, I like that. Like positive reinforcement.
Dr. John Amaral: Yes. We go, where is the energy already flowing positively and let’s get that flowing even more. That will spill over and start drawing along the areas that are bound up. Technically, that’s called entrainment in physics. You take something that’s already flowing and you help it spread. Then it touches the places that are bound up and pretty soon you’re like, oh, I feel more free. Instead of saying, this is wrong and that is wrong. I think it’s also important not to just go, I only want to focus on what’s great and not focus on what’s not working. Because that can be a bypass, that can be denial. To go to those places that are more challenged, to go to those places where there’s a relationship challenge, or a physical challenge, or something that’s harder to be with, let’s first start with where we can connect. From there, let’s start to take a journey into these other places. That’s always how I work. I see these spots you’re asking about as access points or portals. Like little wormholes into the energy system.
Carrie Ann: I can feel it. One of the concepts you’ve also taught me about is grounding, and going outside and putting my feet in the earth. Why is that important?
Dr. John Amaral: It’s important for a number of reasons. That sense of being ground and connected to your body and at the same time being expanded and connected to the universe all around you is an integrated approach. Some people have more of a challenge feeling their connection to something great or something transcendent. Some people have an easy time connecting to that transcendent, but more of challenge in grounding and connecting to their body. It’s important because the grounding also connects you into a life force energy, which is that first layer of your blueprint. That life force energy is what is involved in all the functions of your body, beneath the radar. For example, you don’t have to think about your heart beating, your immune system working, your cell repair and regeneration, your digestion. All of that is connected to the life force energy. Grounding and feeling present with your body right here in this time and space is what helps you stay in the present, helps you stay vital, and helps you stay in flow in the physical. Versus just sort of leaving your body to go into these higher states that don’t have a connection to this time and space.
Carrie Ann: I have learned that it really is a lot of work to achieve wellness. There are so many layers to healing and this inner and outer world or spirit. It takes intention. And I think what you’ve given the world through your gift is a very clear – even though it doesn’t seem so at first – understanding of how it all comes together. And I just want to thank you because you’re amazing. And your work with me has helped me tremendously.
What do you think about the energy blueprint? Are you curious to find out what yours is? Would you work with an energy healer? Let us know in the comments below! We would love to hear from you!
As Carrie Ann said, there are so many layers to healing. Body and energy work is just one layer that is available for you to try. Carrie Ann Conversations is all about providing you with access to information so that you can make your own informed decision for your health. It takes work to sift through the abundance of options out there, but it’s worth it to find what really works for you.
For more information on Dr. John Amaral and his Energy Flow Formula, follow the links below:
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